New board: MonSTer

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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby piku » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:56 am

I noticed today that the CPU temperature of my 68000 processor on the monster board is 68C. It's quite hot but I can hold my finger on it. Still based on what I read for power dissipation this makes no sense. What is the temperature of your cpus? The system runs fine otherwise.
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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby joska » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:53 am

I have not measured the temperature in my Mega with MonSTer, but the CPU is barely warm. 68C is very hot for a 68000. How warm does it get if you remove the MonSTer?
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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby frank.lukas » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:40 am

Atari have build in 68000/12Mhz Types of CPUs, I replace mine with a 68HC000/16Mhz and all is fine now ...
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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby czietz » Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:58 pm

Of course a CMOS CPU will dissipate less power than an NMOS/HMOS one. But the question should be: Why is the CPU so hot in the first place? MonSTer after all does not overclock the CPU, so at least in theory even the NMOS model shouldn't get hotter that without MonSTer. Since the schematic of the MonSTer isn't public, I can only speculate about reasons: Are there some 5 V outputs of the CPU connected to 3,3 V inputs -- maybe via a small resistor? Then a current would flow through the NMOS pullup transistors, heating the CPU.

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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby mfro » Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:05 pm

How did you measure temperature?

68°C is pretty hot, and yes, you can touch it, but not for long without getting burnt.

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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby piku » Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:35 am

I used an infrared gun thermometer. One of the cheap ones.
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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby czietz » Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:20 pm

piku wrote:I used an infrared gun thermometer. One of the cheap ones.


Did you check on the other ICs that your thermometer gives a plausible reading? For example, the 74xx logic ICs afaik don't heat up much and thus should give a reading around ambient temperature.

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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby piku » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:58 pm

Yes I am quite certain it is very warm, much warmer than it should be which is what prompted me to measure it. All of the surrounding hardware is much cooler, even the pico psu.
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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby alanh » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:34 pm

piku wrote:I noticed today that the CPU temperature of my 68000 processor on the monster board is 68C. It's quite hot but I can hold my finger on it. Still based on what I read for power dissipation this makes no sense. What is the temperature of your cpus? The system runs fine otherwise.


I think you'll find if you remove the MonSTer, the temperature is exactly the same.

It does depend on the CPU, but mine also gets hot regardless of the MonSTer.

HC version run much cooler. Try running the MegaSTE's 12MHz CPU at 16MHz for a while, that also gets hot.
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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby piku » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:59 am

I'll have to give that a shot. In the mean time though it does make me feel better about running it as is. I'm surprised to see such an old cpu make that kind of heat.
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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby czietz » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:41 am

Note that as I mentioned earlier, the original 68000 was still fabricated in an NMOS process (as opposed to a more modern CMOS process). One of the drawbacks of NMOS is fairly high static power dissipation, i.e. even at slow speeds. However, I still find 68°C is a bit hot.

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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby frank.lukas » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:10 am

.. a PLCC MC68000 12Mhz one get very Hot in a Atari Mega STE. The HC000 16Mhz is much better ...

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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby piku » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:53 pm

I would probably get this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTOROLA-MC68HC ... SwBLlU3hiU but I am not sure of the difference between the FN package designation and the EI package designation. The FN one there is much closer to me for shipping.
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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby alanh » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:57 pm

EI has different pinout. Avoid it.
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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby exxos » Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:08 pm

alanh wrote:EI has different pinout. Avoid it.


Where did you find that info ? I only ever saw that EC had a different pinout.. Can't see any mention of EI anywhere :shrug:
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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby frank.lukas » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:22 pm

The "EC" has a different pinout ...

Buy your FN typ !
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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby czietz » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:36 pm

exxos wrote:Where did you find that info ? I only ever saw that EC had a different pinout.. Can't see any mention of EI anywhere :shrug:


But no one is talking about an 68EC000 here. The question was if 68HC000FNxx is replaceable with 68HC000EIxx.

So, I don't think Alan is right here. "EI" is simply the designator for the RoHS-compatible (aka lead free) version of the PLCC68 package. Otherwise it should be a direct replacement of the "FN" package. See http://cache.freescale.com/files/shared ... N11462.htm

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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby exxos » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:53 pm

czietz wrote:But no one is talking about an 68EC000 here. The question was if 68HC000FNxx is replaceable with 68HC000EIxx.

So, I don't think Alan is right here. "EI" is simply the designator for the RoHS-compatible (aka lead free) version of the PLCC68 package. Otherwise it should be a direct replacement of the "FN" package. See http://cache.freescale.com/files/shared ... N11462.htm


I simply said the only types different I have seen are the EC & HC types, not EI types. It only caught my attention as I have been using the EI types for my boosters for the past few years, but they are still HC pinout.
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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby alanh » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:17 pm

exxos wrote:
alanh wrote:EI has different pinout. Avoid it.


Where did you find that info ? I only ever saw that EC had a different pinout.. Can't see any mention of EI anywhere :shrug:


I swear I'd seen it in a Motorola manual. But I can't find it right now.

Feel free to ignore my comment.
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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby czietz » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:49 pm

piku wrote:I noticed today that the CPU temperature of my 68000 processor on the monster board is 68C. It's quite hot but I can hold my finger on it. Still based on what I read for power dissipation this makes no sense. What is the temperature of your cpus? The system runs fine otherwise.


I don't have a contactless thermometer. However, today while doing some work on my STE I measured the temperature of the 68000 (NMOS version) in its PLCC package. I used a small (i.e. low thermal capacity) thermocouple and one of these thermally conductive gap pads to ensure good contact between sensor and CPU. With this method I measured 38 °C - 40 °C on the hottest spot of the CPU -- far away from the 68 °C that you measured.

So either your CPU is running hot in general, or the Monster board is somehow causing the CPU to heat up more, or your infrared thermometer gives a wrong reading.

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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby piku » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:49 pm

I believe the 60+ figure. I have several Mega STe spares boards. I will try some things at some point when I have time but I have been very busy lately with work paid work.
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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby troed » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:22 pm

There's been some discussion about using Magic with MonSTer here - but is that with Magic flashed to to the MonSTer or soft-loaded? I've tried both MAGIC62E.IMG (system crash, bombs) and MAGUE62.IMG (Offscreen-driver not found) from PPeras distribution without success. I'm unsure as to whether it's supposed to work or not booting directly from the MonSTer IDE.

http://8bitchip.info/atari/magic62.html

edit: I can get the RAM loading version working from a later package, but I would still like to know if there's a working ROM set anyone is using with the MonSTer. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=20095&p=311997#p311997

/Troed

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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby joska » Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:54 pm

See this thread. I had some problems with the archive at ppera's site but managed to get MagiC running from flash.
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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby troed » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:22 pm

joska wrote:See this thread. I had some problems with the archive at ppera's site but managed to get MagiC running from flash.


Perfect! Apparently I had read that thread since I had downloaded the tool but forgot all about it again :D Now MagiC 6.2 (English patches) from PPera's later package (MAGIC62FUA) runs fine from MonSTer flash.

Thanks :)

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Re: New board: MonSTer

Postby troed » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:53 pm

Alright, something's very strange with MagiC in the MonSTer flashrom though.

1) Flash MagiC to MonSTer
2) Turn off computer, switch to the other bank
3) MagiC boots fine
4 ... x) Reset computer, Magic boots fine. Repeat as many times as you wish.
5) Turn off computer. Turn back on (wait any number of seconds, doesn't matter)
6) MagiC does not boot. An ~8 pixel red stripe at the very left of the screen is the only thing visible, nothing more happens.

BUT! Switching over to TOS, reflashing MonSTer with the same image works just fine, i.e, I can repeat this whole procedure again and have done so. Until I then turn off the system and back on ...

I have not experienced any issues with flashing TOS 2.06 (also a 256KB image) in either bank. Currently I have no real insight to offer here ...

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