Reawakening of my sleeping 1040 STE with problems

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Z4haduun
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Reawakening of my sleeping 1040 STE with problems

Postby Z4haduun » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:57 pm

After it was sitting in my shelf for quite a few years (in the original packaging) i thought it was finaly time to reawake my first 1040 STE (with 4Meg).
Well yes i have two more of them, one in working condition (4meg) and one for spareparts (1meg).

I wanted to use it for experiments with a Gotek drive which i recently aquired, but after that didn't work as expected, i just wanted to run a few demos with it but that didn't work either.
After i had allready troubles with the other two i knew the first thing i should do when running into problems -> recap the psu (thanks exxos).
But this time it didn't help much. The thing is, it boots up into desktop quite fine, but thats about it... If i try to run anything from fdd, i eihter see the desktop or 4 bombs. If i try to start a program in desktop mode -> Tos Error#35.
I know that the later stands for corrupted files, so i tested the disks in my working one -> runs like a charm. So i swaped the floppydrive from the working one to my first one. Same behavior. Disks that should automatically run software (demo's or games) boot up to Desktop. So i swapped the simms from the working one to my first one. Still the same. I tried the PSU, cleaned the contacts on the simms and the sockets, pulling all socketed chips out of the sockets, cleaning the sockets and fitting them back in, still no change.
After that i tested all parts (Simms, Floppy, PSU, KBO) from the first in the working one - runs great. I'm not sure if i should do the same with ICs though.
Any idea what i should do to fix it??

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Re: Reawakening of my sleeping 1040 STE with problems

Postby Maeke » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:23 am

Seems like a dma or wd1772 problem to me, look into exxos research about "bad dma".
BTW you said you recapped the psu, but don't forget the motherboard has caps too, and they have the same age issue.

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Re: Reawakening of my sleeping 1040 STE with problems

Postby iceman » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:29 pm

Hi maeke, I thought the bad DMA only affected hard drive access? I could be wrong.
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Re: Reawakening of my sleeping 1040 STE with problems

Postby Z4haduun » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:18 pm

@Maeke: i allready thought of that too, but i'm missing some of them (value wise). I'll try to get all of those. Is it better to replace them with higher voltages and values or replace them with the original values and voltages? exxos uses ones with higher values on the psu, but on the mainboard?

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Re: Reawakening of my sleeping 1040 STE with problems

Postby Z4haduun » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:28 pm

@Maeke: i allready thought of that too, but i'm missing some of them (value wise). I'll try to get all of those. Is it better to replace them with higher voltages and values or replace them with the original values and voltages? exxos uses ones with higher values on the psu, but on the mainboard?
As far as i can remember the DMA issue is true with mine. Back in the ninties i wanted to buy a megafile from a friend and tested it, guess what,
the next day the megafile was empty... so i didn't buy the megafile. I kinda regret that now... But other than the occurance with the megafile i never had an issue with my (first) STE.

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Re: Reawakening of my sleeping 1040 STE with problems

Postby Maeke » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:07 pm

iceman wrote:Hi maeke, I thought the bad DMA only affected hard drive access? I could be wrong.

No the floppy controller is easily affected by dma issues since it's directly connected to it. It also means wd1772 issue can affect the dma, and there are a wide pannel of other possible causes to this whole dma problem, even the cpu can be involved actually.

Z4haduun wrote:@Maeke: i allready thought of that too, but i'm missing some of them (value wise). I'll try to get all of those. Is it better to replace them with higher voltages and values or replace them with the original values and voltages? exxos uses ones with higher values on the psu, but on the mainboard?
As far as i can remember the DMA issue is true with mine. Back in the ninties i wanted to buy a megafile from a friend and tested it, guess what,
the next day the megafile was empty... so i didn't buy the megafile. I kinda regret that now... But other than the occurance with the megafile i never had an issue with my (first) STE.


Well you can try higher values on some of them (the big 4700µF for example), but not lower. Look exxos's site, part 32. If you don't find electrolytic on the smaller ones, try ceramic caps.
This said don't attempt it yourself if you're not absolutely confident in your skills.

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Re: Reawakening of my sleeping 1040 STE with problems

Postby Z4haduun » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:27 pm

Maeke wrote:
iceman wrote:Hi maeke, I thought the bad DMA only affected hard drive access? I could be wrong.

No the floppy controller is easily affected by dma issues since it's directly connected to it. It also means wd1772 issue can affect the dma, and there are a wide pannel of other possible causes to this whole dma problem, even the cpu can be involved actually.

Z4haduun wrote:@Maeke: i allready thought of that too, but i'm missing some of them (value wise). I'll try to get all of those. Is it better to replace them with higher voltages and values or replace them with the original values and voltages? exxos uses ones with higher values on the psu, but on the mainboard?
As far as i can remember the DMA issue is true with mine. Back in the ninties i wanted to buy a megafile from a friend and tested it, guess what,
the next day the megafile was empty... so i didn't buy the megafile. I kinda regret that now... But other than the occurance with the megafile i never had an issue with my (first) STE.


Well you can try higher values on some of them (the big 4700µF for example), but not lower. Look exxos's site, part 32. If you don't find electrolytic on the smaller ones, try ceramic caps.
This said don't attempt it yourself if you're not absolutely confident in your skills.


Well i could try swapping the DMA ic. As far as i recall they are socketed in all three of my STEs, or i better look first which STE has which DMA ic version.
And if it is still not working, recap the whole board.

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Re: Reawakening of my sleeping 1040 STE with problems

Postby Maeke » Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:59 pm

Z4haduun wrote:
Maeke wrote:
iceman wrote:Hi maeke, I thought the bad DMA only affected hard drive access? I could be wrong.

No the floppy controller is easily affected by dma issues since it's directly connected to it. It also means wd1772 issue can affect the dma, and there are a wide pannel of other possible causes to this whole dma problem, even the cpu can be involved actually.

Z4haduun wrote:@Maeke: i allready thought of that too, but i'm missing some of them (value wise). I'll try to get all of those. Is it better to replace them with higher voltages and values or replace them with the original values and voltages? exxos uses ones with higher values on the psu, but on the mainboard?
As far as i can remember the DMA issue is true with mine. Back in the ninties i wanted to buy a megafile from a friend and tested it, guess what,
the next day the megafile was empty... so i didn't buy the megafile. I kinda regret that now... But other than the occurance with the megafile i never had an issue with my (first) STE.


Well you can try higher values on some of them (the big 4700µF for example), but not lower. Look exxos's site, part 32. If you don't find electrolytic on the smaller ones, try ceramic caps.
This said don't attempt it yourself if you're not absolutely confident in your skills.


Well i could try swapping the DMA ic. As far as i recall they are socketed in all three of my STEs, or i better look first which STE has which DMA ic version.
And if it is still not working, recap the whole board.


Remember, normally only the eletrolytic caps needs to be replaced.

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Re: Reawakening of my sleeping 1040 STE with problems

Postby soviet9922 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:08 pm

You have to replace your DMA chip, but is probably soldered.
What version do you have ?.

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Re: Reawakening of my sleeping 1040 STE with problems

Postby Maeke » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:16 pm

soviet9922 wrote:You have to replace your DMA chip, but is probably soldered.
What version do you have ?.



As Exxos investigations proved, lots of "bad dma" weren't actually bad, it was often the result of pull up of wrong values, or bad caps in the psu (or the motherboard), and the list is long. AND he has seen -001a dma being actually faulty.

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Re: Reawakening of my sleeping 1040 STE with problems

Postby Z4haduun » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:55 pm

Haven't had the time yet to check which version of DMA chip my STE has. Due to some personal problems i have postponed the recapping of the board for at least the next two weeks. I'm thinking of testing the Gotek in the working one to see how it performs and works. And i try to provide some pictures next time.

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Re: Reawakening of my sleeping 1040 STE with problems

Postby Z4haduun » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:44 pm

unexpectedly i had some time today to do a quick taking apart and shooting some photos of the insides of my ste. and it has a C025913-38 dma chip... and yes, it's not socketed like i thought it was. and as promised, some pictures:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Re: Reawakening of my sleeping 1040 STE with problems

Postby Maeke » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:44 am

you may have to change the dma at some point but try the other fixes first:
1- the psu: http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/psu/index.htm
2- adding a resistor array on the dma: http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/DMAfix/index.htm (the cap mod is obsolete).
3- check the value of the resistor arrays around the cpu (and the blitter), if they are 10Kohms, change them for 2.2 K, it may help having cleaner bus signals on the dma.
if those 3 points fail (test at each step), then replace the dma.

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Re: Reawakening of my sleeping 1040 STE with problems

Postby dlfrsilver » Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:33 pm

I have directly replaced the DMA chip, and it solved the problem for me.
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Re: Reawakening of my sleeping 1040 STE with problems

Postby Z4haduun » Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:52 pm

Maeke wrote:you may have to change the dma at some point but try the other fixes first:
1- the psu: http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/psu/index.htm
2- adding a resistor array on the dma: http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/DMAfix/index.htm (the cap mod is obsolete).
3- check the value of the resistor arrays around the cpu (and the blitter), if they are 10Kohms, change them for 2.2 K, it may help having cleaner bus signals on the dma.
if those 3 points fail (test at each step), then replace the dma.


1. allready done the psu recap like exxos, except i couldn't get the rectifier, yet.
2. according to exxos' article, a change to a HC type CPU can also fix this. but what exactly is a HC type CPU? are those the MC68HC000FN8?
3. will do

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Re: Reawakening of my sleeping 1040 STE with problems

Postby Maeke » Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:02 pm

Z4haduun wrote:
Maeke wrote:you may have to change the dma at some point but try the other fixes first:
1- the psu: http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/psu/index.htm
2- adding a resistor array on the dma: http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/DMAfix/index.htm (the cap mod is obsolete).
3- check the value of the resistor arrays around the cpu (and the blitter), if they are 10Kohms, change them for 2.2 K, it may help having cleaner bus signals on the dma.
if those 3 points fail (test at each step), then replace the dma.


1. allready done the psu recap like exxos, except i couldn't get the rectifier, yet.
2. according to exxos' article, a change to a HC type CPU can also fix this. but what exactly is a HC type CPU? are those the MC68HC000FN8?
3. will do

2- yes

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Re: Reawakening of my sleeping 1040 STE with problems

Postby Maeke » Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:06 pm

dlfrsilver wrote:I have directly replaced the DMA chip, and it solved the problem for me.


http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/DMAfix/index.htm UPDATE July 11, 2016, look the file size and the dma type (a newdesk.inf of 2GB!)

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Re: Reawakening of my sleeping 1040 STE with problems

Postby dlfrsilver » Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:21 am

yes i see that, but i never experienced that.
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Re: Reawakening of my sleeping 1040 STE with problems

Postby Maeke » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:28 am

dlfrsilver wrote:yes i see that, but i never experienced that.


Well he found only a very few with this problem in all his tests.

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Re: Reawakening of my sleeping 1040 STE with problems

Postby Z4haduun » Wed May 10, 2017 2:27 pm

Today arrived my brand new plcc extactor, so i thought i give it a shot at swapping the M68000 for a M68HC000NF8, which allready arrived a few days ago and i couldn't find my plcc extractor, but run into some trouble.
I can't get the m68000 out of it's socket. It feels like it's glued into the socket. Doubting my own skllis i tried the extractor on the spareparts ste and there it worked like a charm. So i guess the extractor isn't faulty. Well, i will keep trying.
So still work in progress.

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Re: Reawakening of my sleeping 1040 STE with problems

Postby Z4haduun » Thu May 18, 2017 7:42 pm

Seems like i messed something up while carefully swapping the cpu. Now the beauty loads, stops loading, loads again, stops, does nothing more and shows a white screen. Swapping back to the original cpu didn't bring the desktop back. Guess i will have to investigate further.


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