SCSI 3 drive in Atari TT030

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segabor
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SCSI 3 drive in Atari TT030

Postby segabor » Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:30 pm

Dear Community,

I ask your kind help about using a 68 pin SCSI drive with Atari TT030.

I've managed to obtain an IBM model DDRS-34560 4GB SCSI 68 pin drive so I decided to replace the original Maxtor which is already dying.
The drive was shipped with a narrow adapter so I had only check the SCSI ID and the termination.

ICD Pro 6.5.5 recognized the drive at boot time but ICDFMT froze at once when the drive was found.
Then I tried AHDI 6. It recognized the drive successfully. Then I formatted and partitioned with HDX. So far it went all well.

The next freeze came when I installed drive labels on the Desktop and tried to open Drive C. Although I was able to move the mouse pointer around but it stayed in busy bee mode. Last time I booted NetBSD 5.1 to see if it can handle the SCSI drive. It froze right after detecting it.

I believe the IBM drive is in good condition. Markbad ran successfully(!) without finding any bad sectors. Partition operation went fine too.
But all attempts to access the formatted drive failed ending up having the system unresponsive (endlessly waiting for SCSI response?).

The narrow SCSI cable is original, not broken or extended. The narrow-wide adapter seems also in good condition. However SCSI communication is quite fragile.

I was trying several jumper configurations. What is odd that even removing the termination jumper changed nothing in the behavior described above.

I don't give up the hope to use the drive but I need your invaluable help.
Thanks in advance,

Gabor

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Re: SCSI 3 drive in Atari TT030

Postby frank.lukas » Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:52 pm

... many 16bit LVD SCSI Drives have not Termination only a Jumper to provide Termpower to the Bus. You must use a 68pin / 50pin SCSI Terminated SCSI Adapter .

ebay 231139009168 is the right Thing !

... and the Atari TT deliver no Termpower to the Bus !
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Re: SCSI 3 drive in Atari TT030

Postby nativ » Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:36 pm

I have had several SCSI 3 drives working well with the Falcon ( Apart from specifying partitions that were too large ) Using an 80 > 50 pin adaptor! Just to give you hope!
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Re: SCSI 3 drive in Atari TT030

Postby helmut » Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:54 pm

I have that drive in a TT with 50->68 adapter. The jumpers are:

5,6,7 (counted from the middle, i.e. ID 0)

The adapter has "upper byte active" printed, internal terminators in the TT are present. Also I have a quite long SCSI-cable with a three connectors (using the ones at the ends). That's all I know, it works perfectly, but I only use MiNT or TOS with HDDRIVER.

-Helmut

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Re: SCSI 3 drive in Atari TT030

Postby segabor » Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:21 pm

frank.lukas wrote:... many 16bit LVD SCSI Drives have not Termination only a Jumper to provide Termpower to the Bus. You must use a 68pin / 50pin SCSI Terminated SCSI Adapter .

ebay 231139009168 is the right Thing !

... and the Atari TT deliver no Termpower to the Bus !


Thanks for the tip. This is probably the best thing I can do. I already contacted the seller as they don't ship to my country.

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Re: SCSI 3 drive in Atari TT030

Postby segabor » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:02 am

I took apart the adapter to check termination. But it looks like it does not have any. See attached photos.
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Re: SCSI 3 drive in Atari TT030

Postby segabor » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:20 am

Guys, good news!

SCSI bus seems working now! NetBSD successfully passed the SCSI bus init phase and now ICD Pro formatter is counting bad sectors.
So far everything's pretty good (fingers crossed).

So what happened? I picked out terminator resistors from the old Maxtor SCSI HDD and put them into the TT. It looks like the internal termination was the key to make it run.

The next issue to resolve is to figure out the best HDD partition map for TOS, backup partition and works and for NetBSD.
But first things first. I want to see my TT booting up from the 'new' HDD.

I promise I'll post results once I have everything settled.

Thanks again for showing me the path to walk along.

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Re: SCSI 3 drive in Atari TT030

Postby segabor » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:39 pm

I keep my promise: in short, everything is fine now. I've been over three repartitioning (hello, NetBSD!).
The next big quest is just ahead of me: get a working UNIX-like system beside TOS. But it's another story.

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Re: SCSI 3 drive in Atari TT030

Postby 1st1 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:29 pm

I have now a Seagate Cheeta 10K7 73 GB U320 SCA SCSI drive running in my TT. I use a 50+68-pin SCSi to SCA adapter with integrated passive terminators. I am using HDDriver 9.01 and I can access the full capacity of the drive, I have the flollowinbg partitions: 4x 500 MB, 4x 1000 MB (tos 3.06 can access them when bigdos is activated in the auto folder), 500 MB LNX partition for MiNT system installation, 62 GB LNX partition to hold datas of all kinds. ICD's ratehd benchmarks shows 1680 kB/s transfer rate with the drive.

As the power connector for SCA drives is also on the adapter it is an easy job to provide termpower to the TT internal part of the SCSI bus, just link the +5v from the power supply connector to the termpower signal on the SCSI bus. Optionally you also can use a diode and/or a 1A fuse for that link. So no need to modify TT motherboard to supply termpower to the internal SCSI connector. but if you did so, don' add again termpower to the SCA adapter.

Image

Beside the current working adapter at the harddrive you also can see two working variations for SCA adapters without integrated terminators just left of the drive, at the front left the 50 pin cable is connected to the 50 pin adapter of the SCA adapter (no red termpower cable here), the 68 pin connector is just used for the terminator. Behind you see the SCA-adapter - terminator - 50 pin adapter variant which is too long to fit in TT drive bay.

Image

But unfortunately this solution won't work with all SCA drives, I have tested also a 73 GB IBM SCA drive which blocked the SCSI bus after first access of TOS to the drive for boot attempt. According to Uwe Seimet this is according to the problem that TOS has no proper SCSI implementation. When the hddriver is loaded, this is fixed, but this can not fix the TOS boot routines. Beside the successfull test with the Seagate I also got two Quantum/Maxtor 10K3 73 GB SCA SCSI drives to work with this adapter, but they are too noisy to put them inside the TT, later I will put them into an SCSI tower which also will get the DVD and ZIP drive.
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Re: SCSI 3 drive in Atari TT030

Postby wongck » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:45 am

is it something like this one?
Image

The 50 pin and SCA is on the same side, so is there enough clearance for the device.
what did you put for the scsi-id?
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Re: SCSI 3 drive in Atari TT030

Postby frank.lukas » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:09 am

fancy Atari Musik anDA Dance "Agare Hinu Harukana" 1998 ATARI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX10fxb5eYE

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Re: SCSI 3 drive in Atari TT030

Postby 1st1 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:55 am

wongck wrote:is it something like this one?
Image

The 50 pin and SCA is on the same side, so is there enough clearance for the device.
what did you put for the scsi-id?


Similar, but your example misses the terminator resistor arrays. Frank shows one with active terminator (the chip), but that's not necessary. But it should be possible to add the terminator resistors to the one you show. I just don't know which signals must be terminated beside the 16 data lines. My adapter has three terminator resistors, every serving 8 signals, so in total 24 signals, that means 16 data lines plus 8 others - but which ones?

My currently used adapter is looking very similar to this one, take care on the terminator resistors:

Image

Another solution based on your terminator-less adapter would be this:

Image
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Re: SCSI 3 drive in Atari TT030

Postby Guest » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:10 pm

very nice just ordered one for my TT Build may order another beets the thrash out of Acard

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Re: SCSI 3 drive in Atari TT030

Postby 1st1 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:07 pm

Please note that not every SCSI drive will work. To bootoad the harddisk driver from the disc the TT does not use an initiator SCSI id (or it is "0"), that confuses some drives, then they totally block the SCSI bus. Falcon is the same, writes Uwe Seimet. I have tested the following SCA drives:

Success:
- Quantum/Maxtor Atlas 10K3 73 GB (note that this drive is also available under different OEM brands, like HP, IBM, FSC)
- Seagate 10K7 73 GB ST373207LC

Unsuccessfull:
- Seagate Cheetah ST373405LW 68 Pin 73 GB
- IBM 73 GB SCA SSG-H01D073
- IBM DNES-318350 18GB SCA, does not block SCSI bus, partittioning is ok, install drivber is ok, won't boot anyhow - usefull as a secondary drive

Note that it is very popssible, that other capacities of Quantum/Maxtor 10K3 SCA and Seagate 10K7 SCA drives at 143 or even 300 GB also would work, but this depends on their firmware that they support wrong SCSI initiator behaviour of TOS 3.06/4.04 boot routine. You have to test each drive on that behaviour. Very possible for example that Seagate Cheetah 10K7 ST3146707LC 147 Gb drive also works, and Quantum/Maxtor 10K3 147 GB drive.

Two of these Atlas 10K3 147Gb are now on the way to me, they were very cheap, just 20 Euros each... If you compare what a smaller 50 or 68 pin drive costs...
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Re: SCSI 3 drive in Atari TT030

Postby RealLarry » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:04 pm

Old thread, but very good informations!
I just bought this http://www.ebay.de/itm/361427375188 (7€) and it works great. Has a jumper for TPWR.
My setting is: Jumpers in TT set, TPWR set on adaptor, no (passive) terminator no HDD (doesn't spin up with), external ZIP100.
Can confirm this as a good combination with this adaptor and Seagate Cheetah ST373405LW (20€) mentioned by 1st1.
No luck with a Hitachi Ultrastar HUS103073FL3800 (10€) (spins up, reacts when booting and by hddriver, but no access at all).
On the other side of the screen, it all looks so easy.

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Re: SCSI 3 drive in Atari TT030

Postby helmut » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:28 pm

I made the very same experience on my TT - tried the same disks and the same adapter.
I also tried a 68-pin Hitachi Ultrastar and that also did not work.

But the Seagate makes some trouble: The stepping-sound is rather annoying, and from time to time the picture from the CrazyDots goes off for a second when it writes something. So I replaced it again by another Fujitsu 68-pin.
Do all Cheetahs behave that way?

Anyone tried one of the 80-pin Fujitsu *NC-models?

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Re: SCSI 3 drive in Atari TT030

Postby 1st1 » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:16 am

My Cheetahs are very silent and I have no screen Problems. Powersupply?
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Re: SCSI 3 drive in Atari TT030

Postby helmut » Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:33 pm

Power was my first idea too, but all is powered by an AT-PSU that should really be able to handle a Seagate-HD. And it's only the CrazyDots-video that's affected. Might also be an EMP or some noise on the bus. On the other TT with built-in PSU and TT-video there are no problems.

The acoustic noise seems do get increased by the TT-disk-case - when it just lies there it's not so loud but I can still hear it from quite a distance.


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