Calling XRGB Mini Framemeister users!

No topic. Everything you want to speak about. Please just stay courteous.

Moderators: Mug UK, Silver Surfer, Moderator Team

User avatar
EmpireAndrew
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:46 pm
Location: NYC, USA

Calling XRGB Mini Framemeister users!

Postby EmpireAndrew » Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:07 am

What do I need to connect my STE to the Framemeister?

I assume there is no way of using the Best Electronics VGA cable (VGA to Framemeister?) so do I need to source a Euroscart for the STE and a Euroscart to XRGB 8 pin DIN cable?

I notice this says their SCART cable is not compatible with the Framemeister:
https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/ata ... le-tv-lead

But they don't say why... :shrug:

I note the ST can output HSync and VSync seperately, but the RGB Scarts tend to use Composite sync instead.

Does the Framemeister want the seperate HSync and VSync? :contract:
If so how do the old consoles work on it as they don't output seperate H and VSync to my knowledge.

Or does the Framemeister need the sync stripping out? :shrug:
If so I don't see why I can't use the ST RGB (likely composite sync) SCART cable above with this sync stripper cable for the Framemeister from the very same people? But if so why don't they say that? :contract:

I'm confused... :shrug:
1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/16MB, Int 8GB Gigafile, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> 1991 Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 *** NEW! *** Atari Falcon030, 14MB, 84MB HDD, TOS 4.04
Amiga 500, Win 3.11 PC, Several old Macs, Newton, SGI Indy, much more and counting!

User avatar
EmpireAndrew
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:46 pm
Location: NYC, USA

Re: Calling XRGB Mini Framemeister users!

Postby EmpireAndrew » Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:32 pm

RetroGaming.co.uk are very quick to reply to emails (top marks!) and they re-tested their STFM via a SCART cable to their Framemeister for me and confirm it doesn't work, but they will try their Syncstripper SCART cable next.

But in this video the guy has it working (somehow) with a cable he got from them so I'm still confused:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR5mSnhrVqo
1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/16MB, Int 8GB Gigafile, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> 1991 Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 *** NEW! *** Atari Falcon030, 14MB, 84MB HDD, TOS 4.04
Amiga 500, Win 3.11 PC, Several old Macs, Newton, SGI Indy, much more and counting!

User avatar
Cogweasel
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:10 am
Contact:

Re: Calling XRGB Mini Framemeister users!

Postby Cogweasel » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:05 pm

I have been considering a Framemeister myself, for my ST and other devices as well... but its a bit of a mess trying to figure out how to do it. I think I read that the SCART input on the Framemeister isn't following the European standard, but the Japanese?!? I really don't know for sure, but I think I read that you need cables following the Japanese SCART standard... I didn't even know SCART was used in Japan...

If you do manage to figure it out, please post here again ... would love to get some more insight into this :)

User avatar
EmpireAndrew
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:46 pm
Location: NYC, USA

Re: Calling XRGB Mini Framemeister users!

Postby EmpireAndrew » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:31 pm

OK, I have an answer...

The Framemeister RGB input cable is a SCART.
However it is wired differently than a European SCART, so it's Japanese SCART if you will.
So if you buy a Framemeister you also need a EUROSCART (Female) input cable for it.
retrogamingcables.co.uk sell them.

However, you also need a sync stripper, so make sure you buy the Sync Stripper version of said input cable from retrogamingcables.

For the ST you need a resistor of some sort on the sync pin of the SCART cable.
Robert at retrogamingcables figured it out this morning.

He also figured out you need the sync stripping cable.
So I just ordered both.

So in summary:

ST -> EuroSCART cable with resistor mod on sync pin -> EuroSCART to Framemeister cable with built in sync stripper -> Framemeister.


If ordering the SCART cable from retrogamingcables be sure to put a note during checkout that you want one with the XRGB Mini resistor mod.

I note this resistor mod may be present on other ST SCART cables from other sources or it may not, I don't know...
1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/16MB, Int 8GB Gigafile, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> 1991 Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 *** NEW! *** Atari Falcon030, 14MB, 84MB HDD, TOS 4.04
Amiga 500, Win 3.11 PC, Several old Macs, Newton, SGI Indy, much more and counting!

User avatar
EmpireAndrew
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:46 pm
Location: NYC, USA

Re: Calling XRGB Mini Framemeister users!

Postby EmpireAndrew » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:32 pm

Note, I haven't tried it for myself yet, but he said it worked on their STFM.

I'll post again when I can confirm if it works on my STE.
1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/16MB, Int 8GB Gigafile, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> 1991 Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 *** NEW! *** Atari Falcon030, 14MB, 84MB HDD, TOS 4.04
Amiga 500, Win 3.11 PC, Several old Macs, Newton, SGI Indy, much more and counting!

User avatar
Cogweasel
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:10 am
Contact:

Re: Calling XRGB Mini Framemeister users!

Postby Cogweasel » Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:57 am

Ah ok, so it was the Scart wiring that was different. Cool that you got it sorted! Please post back when you get it working ... good luck!
BTW where did you buy your Framemeister? I just checked some prices and it seems the prices have gone up a bit since last I checked ...

User avatar
EmpireAndrew
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:46 pm
Location: NYC, USA

Re: Calling XRGB Mini Framemeister users!

Postby EmpireAndrew » Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:59 am

Amazon. And yeah it seems about 10% more than the figures I'd seen, $380 or so vs $350.
1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/16MB, Int 8GB Gigafile, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> 1991 Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 *** NEW! *** Atari Falcon030, 14MB, 84MB HDD, TOS 4.04
Amiga 500, Win 3.11 PC, Several old Macs, Newton, SGI Indy, much more and counting!

vizfizz
Atari maniac
Atari maniac
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:15 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Calling XRGB Mini Framemeister users!

Postby vizfizz » Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:03 am

Yep... the connector cable used by the Framemeister is a JP-21 cable. Looks like EURO SCART but wired differently. How annoying.

My understanding was all you needed was one of these

https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/eur ... r-for-sale

Add an Atari RGB to EuroScart cable and you are in business... but you're saying we need this instead?

https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/eur ... amemeister

Interesting.

What would be nice would be if someone could make a Atari RGB 13 pin din to JP-21 connector and bypass the whole SCART thing entirely.

User avatar
EmpireAndrew
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:46 pm
Location: NYC, USA

Re: Calling XRGB Mini Framemeister users!

Postby EmpireAndrew » Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:44 am

That's what I was told by that site, the 2nd link you posted AND a modified version of their Atari monitor to SCART cable.

I now have it working, and it works really well.

Adding scanlines using the option on the Framemeister really looks much better than the clean display you normally get on an LCD.

However to look convincing AND scale correctly you need to output from the Framemeister at 480p or 720p and ensure your monitor doesnt do any further scaling. I did however get strange issues in Microprose Grand Prix where the billboards for example in solid dark blue would get double thickness scanlines, odd. But it works flawlessly at 480p.

I wanted this for video capture into my HDMI capture card so I capture at 480p with scanlines, and then double up the footage in Premiere.
I had to spend a some time fiddling with the brightness, contrast and gamma settings to get the saturation and brightness up, but now it looks pretty much perfect. Very pleased!
1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/16MB, Int 8GB Gigafile, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> 1991 Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 *** NEW! *** Atari Falcon030, 14MB, 84MB HDD, TOS 4.04
Amiga 500, Win 3.11 PC, Several old Macs, Newton, SGI Indy, much more and counting!

vizfizz
Atari maniac
Atari maniac
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:15 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Calling XRGB Mini Framemeister users!

Postby vizfizz » Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:20 am

Please post some examples. I'm considering picking up a Framemeister and I want the best picture. Being in the US, getting these specialty cables is more difficult considering we don't use SCART over here. I wonder how much it costs to ship to California? What was your cost to New York?

User avatar
EmpireAndrew
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:46 pm
Location: NYC, USA

Re: Calling XRGB Mini Framemeister users!

Postby EmpireAndrew » Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:13 pm

I bought the cables from retrogamingcables in the UK.
The sync stripping Scart input cable for the Framemeister and the Scart output cable for the ST (be sure to specify that is has the Framemeister resistor mod on it) and tracked international delivery (3-5 days iirc) came to about $58 total.
1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/16MB, Int 8GB Gigafile, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> 1991 Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 *** NEW! *** Atari Falcon030, 14MB, 84MB HDD, TOS 4.04
Amiga 500, Win 3.11 PC, Several old Macs, Newton, SGI Indy, much more and counting!

User avatar
Cogweasel
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:10 am
Contact:

Re: Calling XRGB Mini Framemeister users!

Postby Cogweasel » Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:28 pm

EmpireAndrew: Thanks for lettings us know how things are going. I am really tempted to buy one, even if really should invest in other tech that I need more :) ... Does anyone know where you can buy one in Europe, excluding Amazon?

User avatar
EmpireAndrew
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:46 pm
Location: NYC, USA

Re: Calling XRGB Mini Framemeister users!

Postby EmpireAndrew » Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:13 am

Here is a test capture I did using an Elgato Game Capture HD60 Pro via the Framemeister.

In this instance the Framemeister is getting the 240p signal from the ST and doubling it up to 480p while adding fake scan lines.
I could have had it triple the res to 720p but that wouldn't be big enough (and 1080p with scanlines doesn't look right) so I took the 480p footage and double that up to 960 pixels high in Adobe Premiere and overlaid it on a 1080p background, the theory being that I would have some kind of artwork and info surrounding it.

Obviously if you don't watch it at 1080p on an appropriate screen your browser may resize the video such that the scan lines are not even, so watch it on youtube, set the quality to 1080p and watch it full screen, ideally on a 1080p panel.

1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/16MB, Int 8GB Gigafile, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> 1991 Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 *** NEW! *** Atari Falcon030, 14MB, 84MB HDD, TOS 4.04
Amiga 500, Win 3.11 PC, Several old Macs, Newton, SGI Indy, much more and counting!

vizfizz
Atari maniac
Atari maniac
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:15 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Calling XRGB Mini Framemeister users!

Postby vizfizz » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:43 am

That looks fantastic. I'm sold!

User avatar
Cogweasel
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:10 am
Contact:

Re: Calling XRGB Mini Framemeister users!

Postby Cogweasel » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:57 pm

That does look nice indeed!


Social Media

     

Return to “Chat forum [ENG]”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest