Were Atari just out of their league in the end?

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calimero
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Re: Were Atari just out of their league in the end?

Postby calimero » Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:38 pm

I upload another video where Falcon play MP3 files in multitasking under MagiC!

https://youtu.be/ycHGQQYoWZQ

I would say that Mac is out of Atari league :D
using Atari since 1986.http://wet.atari.orghttp://milan.kovac.cc/atari/software/ ・ Atari Falcon030/CT63/SV ・ Atari STe ・ Atari Mega4/MegaFile30/SM124 ・ Amiga 1200/PPC ・ Amiga 500 ・ C64 ・ ZX Spectrum ・ RPi ・ MagiC! ・ MiNT 1.18 ・ OS X

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christos
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Re: Were Atari just out of their league in the end?

Postby christos » Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:31 pm

Well, magic is a highly optimised OS. You wouldn't be able to do that in Multitos. I remember under Multitos there was a delay when typing. Still, it's definitely much faster than the Mac, though the Mac desktop has more bells and whistles I don't thing that this sluggishness is justified. I am looking forward to you making more comparisons like this. I'd really like to see running Cab and iCab (I think iCab is available for Lowend Mac). That would be a fun comparison.
Also I really like seeing comparisons between different software packages, even though they are not quite fair. But in that respect running the same software might not be fair either, since one platform may have more optimised code than the other. Still if there are common software packages, seeing them would be fun as well.

Thanks a lot for your vids. Now if we could compare the falcon to a similar specked NeXT workstation.
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Re: Were Atari just out of their league in the end?

Postby iggydrougge » Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:10 pm

Try to turn the LC on, then quickly flick the power switch off and on again.

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Re: Were Atari just out of their league in the end?

Postby iggydrougge » Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:09 pm

Regarding the original question, I share the impression given by the pure looks of the motherboard. The LC series are a marvel of compactness, and one could only wish that Atari and Commodore had gone the same route when making the A1200 and Falcon. I own an LC475 with a 25 MHz 68LC040 and it isn't much slow when used with contemporary productivity software. It has a real expansion slot for adding an ethernet card, which is another sign of how much Atari were behind their times. There was no ethernet for the Falcon, no matter how you were willing to pay, and no software support either. And while System 7 doesn't offer real multitasking, at least it multitasks better than plain TOS, and filenames which aren't ALLCAPS.XYZ.

I've read several cross-platform comparisons from around 1993 in old Amiga magazines, comparing the A1200, the Falcon, an IBM PC, an Archimedes and a Mac. The pure performance and DSP of the Falcon is always mentioned on the upside, but the OS is always mentioned as a problem. One such comparison in a German Amiga mag points out how anarchic user interfaces on the Falcon are, whereas the Mac has a very strict set of guidelines for how software is supposed to behave. Reading through old Atari developer bulletins, it is not only obvious how little time Atari spent on setting guidelines for the user interface, but how late to the party Atari were in implementing basic things that Apple handled back in 1985 such as the cookie jar or just standardising little pieces of the operating system APIs.

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Re: Were Atari just out of their league in the end?

Postby calimero » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:44 pm

Atari with MagiC is far better than Mac OS 7.x in any regard (speed, comfort, utilities, multitasking...)!
btw ...did Mac OS 7 had proportional scrollbars? :P

I had PowerBook 5300 (PowerPC) back in 1998. Mac OS 7 (or was 8?) on it was no faster than MagiC on 16MHz Atari Falcon! It was nice but nothing spectacular, nothing that I did not have on Atari with MagiC (except that Mac was 10 folds more expensive - external SCSI cable cost 100DM!).

Regarding neatness of LC motherboard: how much custom silicon does LC had?
Does it have 16bit, 8 channel harddisc recording? Or integrated AMD SCSI controller is not enough?
How about video? Does LC have some fancy capabilities like 15KHz RGB output, VGA output? Pixel doubling? Chunky mode?
Not to mention DSP...
LC was fine, almost "of the shelf", machine. Nothing fancy so it could be compact.
Atari could easily outdone it with 32bit memory (like LC3; just check speed of CT2 Falcons) and with 32bit expansion slot.
Ataris main problem would be chip and fastram - there should be both RAM, and both RAM should be considerable faster which would drive price higher. LC (Mac) had nice option to increase video RAM (thus resolution) through VRAM simms (I believe they were pretty expensive back in days, but it was very nice solutions for upgrade and for more colors and resolutions)...

--- general notes ---

Windows 2000 make real step forward in regard of computer usefulness in comparison to Atari Magic or Mac with Classic OS (or infamous Windows 9x) - W2K was rock solid OS with fine multittasking and plethora of applications.
Next milestone was Mac OS X with unix foundation and all new and advanced Mac OS X-only utilities and applications (thanks to great underlying technologies in OS X).

Unfortunate I never use Amiga except Amiga 500 for games back in 90s. But I remember some very interesting profound moments at friends house on Amiga 1200 with WB 3.x ...! Amiga had very nice interactive boot screens, something that I still do not see on modern Windows, Macs or Linuxes. Opus (or Dopus?) was very nice file manager and entire OS had very neat tricks to get things fast. I really need to setup my Amiga 1200 and to find some Amiga guru to set OS right.
using Atari since 1986.http://wet.atari.orghttp://milan.kovac.cc/atari/software/ ・ Atari Falcon030/CT63/SV ・ Atari STe ・ Atari Mega4/MegaFile30/SM124 ・ Amiga 1200/PPC ・ Amiga 500 ・ C64 ・ ZX Spectrum ・ RPi ・ MagiC! ・ MiNT 1.18 ・ OS X


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